helen
thomas
interview
By David Hochman
For more than half a century, Helen Thomas
owned the most valuable piece of real estate
in the White House briefing room. Her front-row
seat at presidential press conferences and
its attendant benefitsshe was often
called on first and usually ended the
gatherings with a signature Thank you,
Mr. Presidentmade her the
unofficial dean of the White House press
corps. Her bold, irksome questions were like
hot pokers to 10 U.S. presidents, and her
fearless approach rattled press secretaries
and set a tone for generations of straight-shooting,
badgering reporters.
Last summer, still working full-time at 89,
she saw her decades-long career fall to
pieces after a two-minute video clip went
viral on YouTube. A Long Island rabbi and
blogger visiting the White House turned his
camera on Thomas on May 27 and asked for
any comments on Israel. Thomas
instantly shot back, Tell them to get
the hell out of Palestine, adding that
the Jews can go home to
Poland, Germany and America and
everywhere else. Endless media outrage
ensued, prompting Thomas to issue an apology
and abruptly resign from Hearst
Newspapers on June 7. Her speaking agency
dropped her, journalism schools and
organizations rescinded awards named in her
honor and she lost that prized seat in the
White House.
Thomass comments were not a complete
shock to those who follow her. In recent
years she practically scolded presidents and
their gatekeepers for favoring Israel. She
had previously asked the White House about
Israels secret nuclear
arsenal and why President Obama did not
condemn last Mays Israeli attacks on
the aid flotilla headed for Gaza.
Born August 4, 1920, Thomas herself is of
Arab descent. She was the seventh of nine
children born in Winchester, Kentucky to
Syrian-born emigrants from Tripoli, Lebanon.
Her family soon moved to Detroit, where her
father ran a grocery store even though he
couldnt read or write in English. News
was often a topic around the house, and after
college Thomas landed a job as a girl Friday
at a Washington, D.C. newspaper toward the
end of World War II. That led her to the copy
desk and a cub reporter position and
eventually to a job covering government
bureaucracy for the wire service United Press
International. She remained at UPI for much
of her career. As White House correspondent
from the Kennedy administration on, Thomas
had unusual prominence despite standing just
under five feet tall.
Famously direct, Thomas was especially
forceful with George W. Bush, whom she once
called the worst president in American
history. She was relentless about
getting him to explain his decision to go to
war in Iraq, asking over and over, What
was your real reason? What was it? Why did
you go to war? His minions promptly
moved Thomas to the back row of the briefing
room.
Thomas now writes a column for the Falls
Church News-Press in Virginia. She still
wakes early to read various newspapers
delivered to her door, and shes still
out many nights talking politics at favorite
D.C. haunts.
Contributing Editor David Hochman
got the idea to call Thomas to see if she
wanted to talk. She picked up the phone
and said yes immediately, he says.
I think she really appreciated the
opportunity to do a long-format Q&A to
express her side of what happened.
Based in Los Angeles, Hochman flew to
Washington to meet Thomas at her apartment
near Dupont Circle. They also broke bread at
her favorite Palestinian restaurant. I
was curious whether Id find the ranting
woman from the YouTube video, Hochman
says. She turned out to be a person in
full possession of her faculties and
impressively articulate. Mostly she was the
Thomas the public has known forever: feisty,
passionate and not afraid to speak up.
Does Hochman, who is Jewish, believe Thomas
is an anti-Semite? Ill let the
reader decide. But I did think it was amusing
when she presented a plate of ham sandwiches
and then said, Oh, I hope I
havent served the wrong thing.?
PLAYBOY: So is this how
you pictured retirement?
THOMAS: Im not retired!
I was fired. In fact, Ill die with my
boots on. Im still writing and
Ill continue to write and ask hard
questions. I will never bow out of journalism.
PLAYBOY: Take us back to the
White House courtyard on May 27 when Rabbi
David Nesenoff pointed his camera at you and
asked for your comments on Israel.
THOMAS: He pulled that thing
out like a jackknife. I mean, he started out
very nice, introducing me to these two young
boys who wanted to be in journalism. He said,
Got any advice? Go for it. I
didnt know it was Jewish Heritage Month,
which is why he was at the White House and
also why he asked So what do you think
of Israel? Thats when I said,
They should get the hell out of
Palestine.
PLAYBOY: Did you realize how
controversial those words were as you spoke
them?
THOMAS: I knew Id hit
the third rail. You cannot say anything about
Israel in this country. But Ive lived
with this cause for many years. Everybody
knows my feelings that the Palestinians have
been shortchanged in every way. Sure, the
Israelis have a right to existbut where
they were born, not to come and take someone
elses home. Ive had it up to here
with the violations against the Palestinians.
Why shouldnt I say it? I knew exactly
what I was doingI was going for broke.
I had reached the point of no return. You
finally get fed up.
PLAYBOY: What was life like
in the immediate aftermath as millions
started viewing the video on YouTube?
THOMAS: I went into self-imposed
house arrest for two weeks. It was a case of
know thyself. Isnt that
what Socrates said? I wanted to see if I was
remorsefuland I wasnt.
PLAYBOY: Did the phone ring
off the hook?
THOMAS: No. Nobody called.
But I still have some friends in the White
House press pool, who reached out to me. I
understand they formed Jews for Helen Thomas
at one point.
PLAYBOY: Thats
interesting.
THOMAS: I also heard from
Jimmy Carter. He called a few weeks later.
PLAYBOY: He did? What did he
say?
THOMAS: Basically he was
sympathetic. He talked about the Israelis in
the Middle East, the violations. It was very
nice of him to call, but I dont want to
get him into trouble.
PLAYBOY: His reaction
certainly wasnt typical.
THOMAS: No. Every columnist
and commentator jumped on me immediately as
anti-Semitic. Nobody asked me to explain
myself. Nobody said, What did you
really mean?
PLAYBOY: What did you really
mean?
THOMAS: Well, theres
no understanding of the Palestinians at all.
I mean, theyre living there and these
people want to come and take their homes and
land and water and kill their children and
kill them. How many are still under arrest in
Israelnever been charged, never been
tried, never been convicted? Thousands. Why?
Meanwhile, we keep giving Israel everything.
Our government bribes the Israelis by saying,
Please come to the [negotiating] table
and well give you this and well
give you that. Obamas last offer
to the Israelis was $22 billion in new
fighter planes [Editors note: The
offer was actually just under $3 billion],
a veto at the UN for anything pro-Arab or pro-Palestinian
and a three-month freeze on the colonization
and settlers. I mean, what is this? They gave
away the store, just as Reagan and every
other president did. Why do you have to bribe
people to do the right thing? I dont
want my government bribing anybody. I want
them demanding. Stop all this aid to Israel
when theyre killing people!
PLAYBOY: It was your follow-up
comment, when you said the Jews should go
back to Poland, Germany and America, that
really infuriated people.
THOMAS: Well, that
immediately evoked the concentration camps.
What I meant was they should stay where they
are because theyre not being
persecutednot since World War II, not
since 1945. If they were, we sure would hear
about it. Instead, they initiated the Jackson-Vanik
law, which said the U.S. would not trade with
Russia unless it allowed unlimited Jewish
emigration. But it was not immigration to the
United States, which would have been fine
with me. It was to go to Palestine and uproot
these people, throw them out of their homes,
which they have done through several wars.
Thats not fair. I want people to
understand why the Palestinians are upset.
They are incarcerated and living in an open
prison. I say to the Israelis, Get out
of peoples homes! Its
unacceptable to have soldiers knocking on a
door at three in the morning and saying,
This is my home. And forcing
people out of homes theyve lived in for
centuries? What is this? How can anybody
accept it? I mean, Jewish-only roads? Would
anyone tolerate something like that in
America? White-only roads?
PLAYBOY: You mean Israeli-only roads,
not Jewish only, right? [Editors
note: Israel closes certain roads to
Palestinians, but roads are open to all
Israeli citizens and to other nationals,
regardless of religious background.]
THOMAS: Israeli-only roads,
okay. But its more than semantics
because the Palestinians are deprived of
owning these roads. This is their land.
Im sorry, but were talking about
foreigners who came and said, God gave
this land to us. [Former Israeli prime
minister Yitzhak] Rabin said,
Wheres the deed? I mean,
come on! Do you know that an Arab Palestinian
trying to go home to see his mother has to go
through 10 checkpoints and then is held there,
while an American tourist can go through
right like that? The Palestinian people have
to carry their kids to hospitals and are not
allowed to drive cars and so forth. What is
this? No American Jew would tolerate that
sort of treatment here against blacks or
anyone else. Why do they allow it over there?
And why do they send my American tax dollars
to perpetuate it?
PLAYBOY: Do you acknowledge
that some Palestinian behavior over the years,
including hijacking and the use of suicide
bombers, has been wrong and has added to the
problem?
THOMAS: In an ideal world passive
resistance and world disarmament would be
great. Unfortunately we dont live in
that world. Of course I dont condone
any violence against anyone. But who
wouldnt fight for their country? What
would any American do if their land was being
taken? Remember Pearl Harbor. The Palestinian
violence is to protect what little remains of
Palestine. The suicide bombers act out of
despair and desperation. Three generations of
Palestinians have been forced out of their
homesby Israelisand into refugee
camps. And the Israelis are still bulldozing
Palestinians homes in East Jerusalem.
Remember, Menachem Begin invented terrorism
as his MOand bragged about it in his
first book. Thats how Israel was
created, aided and abetted by U.S. money and
arms. To annex and usurp an occupied
peoples country is illegal under
international law. The Israelis know that,
but their superior military force has always
prevailed against the indigenous people.
PLAYBOY: Whats your
reaction to the changes sweeping through the
Arab world as throngs of demonstrators take
to the streets across the region?
THOMAS: I love the new
revolutionary spirit in the Middle East and
North Africa. The power of the people is
removing ruthless dictators in Tunisia and
Egyptand thats only the beginning.
There is no stopping this free new movement.
The Arab world is waking up to the
possibilities of democratic life and freedom
for its people, and I am happy to see this
happening in my lifetime.
PLAYBOY: Do you have a personal
antipathy toward Jews themselves?
THOMAS: No. I think
theyre wonderful people. They had to
have the most depth. They were leaders in
civil rights. Theyve always had the
heart for others but not for Arabs, for some
reason. Im not anti-Jewish; Im
anti-Zionist. I am anti Israel taking what
doesnt belong to it. If you have a home
and youre kicked out of that home, you
dont come and kick someone else out.
Anti-Semite? The Israelis are not even
Semites! Theyre Europeans, and
theyve come from somewhere else. But
even if they were Semites, they would still
have no right to usurp other peoples
land. There are some Israelis with a
conscience and a big heart, but unfortunately
they are too few.
PLAYBOY: In the wake of your
anti-Israel comments, a blogger from The
Atlantic argued theres really no
distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.
He wrote, Thomas was fired for saying
that the Jews of Israel should move to Europe,
where their relatives had been slaughtered in
the most devastating act of genocide in
history. She believes that once the Jews are
evacuated from their ancestral homeland, the
worlds only Jewish country should be
replaced by what would be the worlds 23rd
Arab country. She believes that Palestinians
deserve a country of their own but that the
Jews are undeserving of a nation-state in
their homeland, which has had a continuous
Jewish presence for 3,000 years.
THOMAS: [Interrupts]
Did a Jew write this? [Editors note:
The writer is Jeffrey Goldberg.]
PLAYBOY:
and has
been the location of two previous Jewish
states. This sounds like a very anti-Jewish
position to me, not merely an anti-Zionist
position.
THOMAS: This is a rotten
piece. I mean its absolutely biased and
totallywho are these people? Why do
they think theyre so deserving? The
slaughter of Jews stopped with World War II.
I had two brothers and many relatives who
fought in that war against Hitler. We
believed in it. Every American family was in
that fight. But they were liberated since
then. And yet they carry on the victimization.
American people do not know that the Israeli
lobbyists have intimidated them into
believing every Jew is a persecuted victim
foreverwhile they are victimizing
Palestinians.
PLAYBOY: Lets get to
something else you said more recently. In a
speech in Detroit last December, you told an
Arab group, We are owned by the
propagandists against the Arabs. Theres
no question about that. Congress, the White
House and Hollywood, Wall Street, are owned
by the Zionists. No question, in my opinion.
They put their money where their mouth is.
Were being pushed into a wrong
direction in every way. Do you stand by
that statement?
THOMAS: Yes, I do. I know it was
horrendous, but I know its true. Tell
me its not true and Ill be happy
to be contradicted. Im just saying
theyre using their power, and they have
power in every direction.
PLAYBOY: That stereotype of
Jewish control has been around for more than
a century. Do you actually think theres
a secret Jewish conspiracy at work in this
country?
THOMAS: Not a secret.
Its very open. What do you mean secret?
PLAYBOY: Well, for instance,
explain the connection between Hollywood and
whats happening with the Palestinians.
THOMAS: Power over the White
House, power over Congress.
PLAYBOY: By way of
contributions?
THOMAS: Everybody is in the
pocket of the Israeli lobbies, which are
funded by wealthy supporters, including those
from Hollywood. Same thing with the financial
markets. Theres total control.
PLAYBOY: Who are you
thinking about specifically? Who are the Jews
with the most influence?
THOMAS: Im not going
to name names. What, am I going to name the
Ponzi guy on Wall Street [Bernard Madoff] or
the others? No.
PLAYBOY: Then how do you make the
claim that Jews are running the country?
THOMAS: I want you to look
at the Congress that just came in. Do you
think [New York Democratic senator Charles]
Schumer and Lehtinenwhatever her name
isin Florida [Republican representative
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, a strong supporter of
Israel] are going to be pro-Arab? No. But
theyre going to be very influential.
Eric Cantor, the majority leader of the
Republicans, do you think hes going to
be for the Arabs? Hell no! Im telling
you, you cannot get 330 votes in Congress for
anything thats pro-Arab. Nothing. If
youre not in, youre eased out,
just as Senator William Fulbright was in the
1960s [after claiming that millions of tax-deductible
dollars from American philanthropies were
being sent to Israel and then funneled back
to the U.S. for distribution to organizations
with pro-Israel positions]. Congressman Paul
Findley from a little old rural district in
Illinois made the mistake of shaking hands
with Yasir Arafat years ago. It ended up
costing him his reelection. He later wrote a
book called They Dare to Speak Out
about how impossible it is to have a position
in this country that takes on Israel. Maybe
there is a handful that can, but in general
you cannot speak against any Zionist movement
in this country.
PLAYBOY: Do you begrudge
people like Steven Spielberg? He created the
Shoah Foundation to chronicle the life
stories of Holocaust survivors. Whats
your feeling about him?
THOMAS: Theres nothing
wrong with remembering it, but why do we have
to constantly remember? Were not at
fault. I mean, if theyre going to put a
Holocaust museum in every city in Germany,
thats fine with me. But we didnt
do this to the Jews. Why do we have to keep
paying the price and why do they keep
oppressing the Palestinians? Do the Jews ever
look at themselves? Why are they always right?
Because they have been oppressed throughout
history, I know. And they have this
persecution. Thats true, but they
shouldnt use that to dominate.
PLAYBOY: In America
youre talking about a relatively small
community. Jews make up roughly two percent
of the U.S. population. On a worldwide level,
the percentage is well under one percent.
Those numbers dont exactly spell
domination.
THOMAS: I get where
youre leading with this. You know damn
well the power they have. It isnt the
two percent. Its real power when you
own the White House, when you own these other
places in terms of your political persuasion.
Of course they have power. You dont
deny that. Youre Jewish, arent
you?
PLAYBOY: Yes.
THOMAS: Thats what I
thought. Well, you know damn well they have
power.
PLAYBOY: Why did it take you
so long to speak out like this?
THOMAS: It hasnt taken
that long. Ive told all my friends and
so forth. This has been an issue for me since
I first came to Washington.
PLAYBOY: Youve kept
quiet publicly since the 1940s?
THOMAS: It was certainly on
my mind back then. The United Nations
Partition Plan was being debated at the UN
and in the Arab community, and I knew what
the Arabs were going through since I have an
Arab background. I was part of that community.
Like I said, Ive never hesitated to
tell my views to all my friends. They knew
exactly where I stood. But I finally wanted
to speak the truth. And I think Im old
enough to get away with it. Well, almost. Not
quite.
PLAYBOY: Were you surprised
that people like David Duke and even
Hezbollah came out and said you were
courageous and a hero for them?
THOMAS: I dont want to
be a hero to anyone. I just want to be me,
and I want to tell the truth. I want everyone
to accept the truth. Its horrible to
say some of my best friends are Jews, but
they are and they have been.
PLAYBOY: Dont take
this the wrong way, but the question many
people have is, Has Helen Thomas lost her
mind? Youre 90, after all. Do you still
have all your faculties?
THOMAS: I resent that
question! I thoroughly resent it. Why are you
interviewing me if Im crazy? It
wouldnt be worth it to you, would it?
PLAYBOY: Its not an
unreasonable question.
THOMAS: I resent it. You
should apologize.
PLAYBOY: But its the
question everyone wants answeredand
youre the one who always tells
journalists to ask the hard questions.
THOMAS: They want to know if
Im crazy? You have to be crazy to
criticize Israel? You have to be crazy to
criticize tyranny? I learned before Hitler
that you have to stand up for something. You
have to stand up. We always have to take a
stand against human tyranny wherever it
occurs. [pauses] Would you like a
Coke or a ginger ale?
PLAYBOY: No, thank you.
THOMAS: We have Diet Coke.
Wine?
PLAYBOY: No, were good.
THOMAS: Scotch?
PLAYBOY: No, thank you.
Hows your health, by the way?
THOMAS: Im a little
rickety.
PLAYBOY: Do people live a
long time in your family?
THOMAS: I had a brother who
just died at 100.
PLAYBOY: Wow. How long did
your parents live?
THOMAS: Into their 60s.
Id like to live a long life.
PLAYBOY: Do you fear dying?
THOMAS: No, but Im not
ready to go. You never know, though.
Its fate.
PLAYBOY: Life is
unpredictable, thats for sure.
THOMAS: Theres an Arab
expression, Maktub.
PLAYBOY: Which means?
THOMAS: It is written.
PLAYBOY: Meaning whatever
will be will be?
THOMAS: I dont know if
Im that fatalistic, but yes.
PLAYBOY: Do you picture
heaven in any way? What would heaven be for
you?
THOMAS: I never thought
about heaven per se. I think when youre
dead, youre dead. If anything happens
after that, you just hope you dont go
to hell.
PLAYBOY: When people write
your obituary
THOMAS: [Eyes suddenly
fill with tears] Oh, I know what
theyre going to say: anti-Semite.
PLAYBOY: That has to bother
you after all your years of hard work.
THOMAS: [Starts to cry]
Im a reporter.
PLAYBOY: Whats making
you emotional?
THOMAS: Im a reporter.
[sobs] I know damn well what
theyre going to say because they have
their print, they have their ink. They
dont give a damn about the truth. They
have to have it their way, and theyll
be writing my obituary.
PLAYBOY: Isnt that
their job?
THOMAS: Well, I dont
want to be treated that way. [pauses but
continues to cry] Im sorry. But
what am I supposed to do, love every Jew
because they want to take Palestine?
Its a real cause with me. They should
have a conscience and they dont if
thats what theyre going to do. Is
there such a thing as a conscience? I think
there is. Stop taking what doesnt
belong to you! Stop killing these people.
These children throw stones at them, and they
shoot them. Where is the Jewish conscience? I
want to know. Have some feeling. They
cant just come in and say, This
is my home, knock on the door at three
in the morning and have the Israeli military
take them out. Thats what happens. And
thats what happened to the Jews in
Germany. Why do they inflict that same pain
on people who did nothing to them? [takes
another break to compose herself]I sure
didnt want to cry. But I do care about
people. And I dont care what they write
about me. Theyve already written it. My
family will be disappointed in me for crying.
PLAYBOY: We in the public
never get to see you cry. Helen Thomas has
always been the picture of toughness and
strength.
THOMAS: Oh, Ive cried
all my life. Im a crybaby. Its
not that Im soft; I just cry at the
drop of a hat.
PLAYBOY: Lets shift
gears. You have literally had a front-row
seat on the presidency. What should the
American people know about how the White
House really operates?
THOMAS: They dont know
how intense the pressure from different
special interests is on the president and
congressmen. Politicians more often than not
give in to that pressure. These elected
officials are supposed to be doing what we
want them to do. But I suppose thats
the reason we have the Tea Party. People are
unhappy. The trouble is, swinging to the
right is always dangerous. We end up losing
so much in the rush to conservatism. But even
Obama has fallen down that hole. Hes
pushing a conservative agenda.
PLAYBOY: The right
doesnt see Obama that way. How is Obama
conservative?
THOMAS: Look at Guantánamo. With a
stroke of a pen, the day after Obama took the
oath he should have said, Were
getting the hell out of here. Same
thing with Iraq and Afghanistan. Theres
no reason for us to be in a war.
Theyll all come here if we
dont go there. That is baloney.
Go halfway around the world to kill and die?
Why? Now the veterans cant get jobs. I
see stories every day about soldiers being
liberated from Iraq only to end up unemployed.
Where is Obama? How can he continue these
Bush policies that were so mean and rotten
and unjust? People had this impression that
Obama would be a peaceful president, but
there he is, as hawkish as any of them. And
Hillary Clinton is no liberal either. She put
out the word to capture or kill
for Afghanistan. What would she do that for,
really? Capture or kill? What does this mean?
I thought, naively perhaps, that she and
Obama would bring change, that they would be
different. I assumed wrongly that they would
be liberal because hes black and
shes a woman. Its maddening.
PLAYBOY: Whos the
greatest president youve covered?
THOMAS: Well, I think Carter
was most impressive from the perspective of
pure intellect. He was the smartest, if not
the most effectual. A man of bold ideas and
great wisdom. But that doesnt mean he
was a great president. He wasnt a
schmoozer. He didnt know how to do that
part of the job.
PLAYBOY: Incidentally,
Carter recently said America is ready for its
first gay president. Do you think thats
true?
THOMAS: Why not? Absolutely.
Dont underestimate America.
PLAYBOY: So who was the
greatest president youve covered?
THOMAS: Id say it was
a draw. Kennedy and Johnson both impressed me
the most for knowing the country, knowing how
to legislate and how to get things done and
for having monumental ideals. They were
presidents who served during remarkable times
and lived up to those times.
PLAYBOY: Then there was
Richard Nixon. Why didnt you see
Watergate coming?
THOMAS: Because we were on the body
watch.
PLAYBOY: Meaning what?
THOMAS: When youre
with a wire service, youre always with
the president. Youre always trailing
him; youre always there when hes
in public. You dont have time to chase
the backstory. I mean, I didnt think
Nixon was totally honest, but I didnt
know about Watergate per se because when
youre following the president you
cant go digging.
PLAYBOY: You were the only female
print reporter to accompany Nixon on his
landmark visit to China in 1972. Whats
your lasting memory from that trip?
THOMAS: Everything. It was a
magnificent tripeight days when you
never wanted to sleep you were so afraid to
miss something. Everything was a story: what
the Chinese wore, what they ate, even what I
ate. I would call my office and say President
Nixon was going to meet with so-and-so, and
theyd say, No, wait a minute. We
want to know what your room is like and what
youre having for breakfast. Every
reporter in Washington wanted to be on that
trip, but it was very limited.
PLAYBOY: How do you explain
your ability to get access like that? Nobody
else had the front-row spot at the White
House as long as you did or got to ask the
first question at press conferences. What was
your secret?
THOMAS: I thought it was my due,
actually. [laughs] I worked hard.
And while Ive always felt privileged to
go to the White House, I felt this was what I
was supposed to do, which is ask hard
questions. So many people outside the White
House gates wonder whats going on in
there. When I walk in or out, they always ask,
Is the president there? Is he working?
You want to just say, Come in.
Its your house. This is your house.
[points to plate of ham sandwiches]
Here, have a sandwich.
PLAYBOY: No, thank you. Did
you go into journalism because you wanted to
make a difference?
THOMAS: Hell no. I got into
it because I am very nosy, very curious, and
because I thought it was a great profession.
Its an education every day to be in
journalism, and its given me a great
life.
PLAYBOY: Were you the kid in
the front row at school, asking questions the
teacher didnt want to hear?
THOMAS: No. That came later. I was
afraid of authority as a kid. I certainly
wasnt going to challenge teachers. But
I had great parents who taught me never to be
seen as less than anyone else. My mother and
father couldnt read or write English,
but they were very involved with their
friends in talking politics. We were thrilled
when my father made a check mark for
Roosevelt to be elected. He was a proud man.
He ran a small grocery and fed our whole
ethnic neighborhood in DetroitItalians
on one side, Germans on the other, everybody
hungry. Its the classic immigrant story,
but they were more liberated than most. They
always told me I didnt need to get
married or have children to be successful.
That was unusual in those days and still is.
And I saw from an early age that women
werent being treated right,
werent getting opportunities. I wanted
to be a newspaperwoman, and I got on the high
school paper. I worked on the college paper
at Wayne State University and loved it. When
I came to Washington I got a job as a copyboy,
running for coffee, cutting copy. This was
during World War II. Soon enough, I was
covering politics. Perhaps there was some
element of wanting to do good. I saw what was
happening with blacks, civil rights and
everything else. Something had to be done in
our country, by God, and I was going to help
any way I could.
PLAYBOY: Whats your
earliest memory of being at the White House?
THOMAS: I sort of assigned myself to
the White House. I went to cover the Kennedy
family on Inauguration Day. I covered men,
women, children, animals, everything that
moved in the Kennedy White House. I was like
the woman who came to dinner; I never left.
After the inauguration, UPI said, Okay,
Thomas, youre assigned. It was a
three-person staff: Merriman Smith, Alvin
Spivak and myself. Merriman Smith was the
brilliant reporter who won the Pulitzer in
Dallas the day Kennedy was killed.
PLAYBOY: Where were you that
day?
THOMAS: I was getting ready
to go on a vacation and was in a fancy
restaurant on Connecticut Avenue in D.C. with
someone from Jackies office and an AP
reporter and rival who was my closest friend.
We ordered lunch and I heard a radio. It
sounded like a sporting event, football maybe.
But I thought, Its Friday; how strange.
So I went over to listen, and thats
when I heard Kennedys been shot.
We all shot out of that restaurant and left
Jackies staff with the bill. The AP
girl ran to her office and I ran to mine. I
walked in and they said, Youre on
vacation. I said, No, Im
not. They said, Okay. Get in a
cab and go to Andrews Air Force Base.
Youre going to Dallas. It was
assumed that Kennedy was still alive. By the
time I was in the cab, it was formally
announced that he was dead.
PLAYBOY: So you stayed in Washington?
THOMAS: I stayed at Andrews
and waited there until Air Force One
came in with the body. I saw Jackie and the
pink suit and the blood. I was brokenhearted
like everyone else. Kennedy was as brilliant
as he was charming, and I had a wonderful
personal relationship and rapport with him.
He teased me a lot. I remember on St.
Patricks Day one year JFK came over to
the press pool, and I said, Its a
great day for the Irish, Mr. President.
And he said, Well, what are you doing
here, Helen? I mean, his wit was that
quick.
PLAYBOY: What was it like being
inside the White House during that time?
THOMAS: The days after the
assassination were surreal. Jackie
hadnt yet moved out of the White House
and LBJ hadnt yet moved in, so every
day we were going to LBJs home and
talking to him in the motorcade. Its
funny thinking about it now. Today Biden
rides by like a monarch with all sirens
blaring. He has eight outriders, two scout
cars and I dont know how many police
trailing in the back. LBJ demanded total
silence for his motorcade around town and
into the White House.
PLAYBOY: What does that say
about Joe Biden?
THOMAS: It was Cheney who
started it, I think. That was his MO. Now,
there was a vice president. [laughs]
The idea that he could have been president. I
think Cheney is diabolical. How much money
has he made from Halliburton? Now
theyre all in hiding, he and his men.
Theyve all slipped away into corporate
life, universities or think tanks. But
getting back to LBJ, he used to do these
moving press conferences, which was
especially hard since I was in heels and
would be falling this way and that trying to
keep up with him. He had this habit of
whispering, so we had to stay close. On walks
around the South Lawn he would let his hair
down. We were privileged because we were
getting what was really on his mind. Then
hed say, You know, this is all
off the record. Well, none of us
thought it was off the record. We knew,
whatever he was trying to tell us, that he
wanted the story out but not attributed to
him. Wed have to go and find the
information on our own. It was quite a study
in press relations. You had to work hard not
to be manipulated.
PLAYBOY: You certainly never
had a problem asking hard questions. George W.
Bush moved you to the back of the briefing
room to get you off his back.
THOMAS: Actually, it was Ari
Fleischer, the number one liar in the White
House. He didnt like that I was asking
too many mean questions about where the
Israelis were getting their arms and whatnot.
So I got pushed to the back. But the first
opportunity I had to challenge Bush, I did.
PLAYBOY: You asked him a
bold question in 2006. You said, Your
decision to invade Iraq has caused the deaths
of thousands of Americans and Iraqis, wounds
of Americans and Iraqis for a lifetime. Every
reason given, publicly at least, has turned
out not to be true. My question is, Why did
you really want to go to war? He danced
around the answer. Did you have an answer in
mind when you asked that question? What do
you think has driven Americas
involvement in these recent wars?
THOMAS: You tell me.
PLAYBOY: No, you tell us.
THOMAS: Well, no president
has ever told the truth about why were
there. I think oil has a lot to do with it. I
think theres an Israel connection. Our
government feels compelled to protect Israel.
With Bush, some people say it was George Jr.
avenging for Daddy. At least Bushs
father understood what war was about. He had
been in war. He was more cautious. He
certainly lined up the Arab countries to
support fighting the invasion of Kuwait. The
Bush family has always been rich people in
search of a job, but George Sr. had been head
of the CIA and chairman of the Republican
National Committee. He knew politics and he
knew foreign policy, but he didnt give
any of that to his son. Dubya was a hip-shooter.
If you look at the Downing Street Memo from
2002, you see the chief of British
intelligence had come here just before George
W. Bushs invasion of Iraq. It concludes
that the president simply was determined to
go to war and that he wanted to fix the facts
to do it. But there were no facts. We just
went to war for no reason.
PLAYBOY: So you never
believed the line that the world would be
a safer place without Saddam
Hussein?
THOMAS: I think it was wrong
to hang Saddam Hussein. He should have been
put before an international court for war
crimes and everything else. But for us to
just bypass the law and have him hanged was
wrong. Not that the press called the
president on it. The press rallied around the
flag on that one.
PLAYBOY: Whos your
most trusted news source, by the way?
THOMAS: Nobody, really. I
like the liberal press. I like E.J. Dionne Jr.
in The Washington Post. I like Sam
Donaldson. I believe hes an honest man.
I loved Walter Cronkite. I certainly loved Ed
Murrow. But I dont see replicas around.
PLAYBOY: What do you think
of Fox News?
THOMAS: I dont watch
Fox and I dont follow Fox.
PLAYBOY: Not even Glenn Beck?
THOMAS: Who?
PLAYBOY: Glenn Beck.
Hes on Fox.
THOMAS: No, dont know
him.
PLAYBOY: Do you know who
Bill OReilly is?
THOMAS: Yes, I do. He sent
me flowers after insulting me for something
or other.
PLAYBOY: Is anyone asking
the tough questions about Israel?
THOMAS: Were still not
getting the full story on Israel. I asked
both President Obama at a news conference and
Hillary if they knew of any nations in the
Middle East that had nuclear weapons. Obama
danced around it and said, I dont
want to speculate. Hillary said,
Oh, Helen, youre cute or
something to that effect. She laughed it off.
PLAYBOY: Why would our
government remain quiet if Israel had nukes?
THOMAS: Years ago we made a
pact with Golda Meir never to say it. In her
era, they would never say it, and they
cant say it now because they cant
tell Iran and all these other countries that
they have nukes. Thats my opinion. Our
government wont tell the truth, and
neither will the Israelis. Everyone knows,
but I cant write Everyone knows.
You have to attribute it to somebody. Again,
you dont see these stories in the news.
You have to go to a magazine like The
Nation or the offbeat press to find out
what is really happening. They dont say
that in The New York Times.
PLAYBOY: Or we can get our
news from comedians like Jon Stewart.
Whats your take on him?
THOMAS: I dont know.
He called me anti-Semitic. What is this crap?
Anti-Semitic? What is he?
PLAYBOY: What about Bill
Maher?
THOMAS: I like Bill Maher.
Remember when he said the 9/11 bombers were
not cowards? He lost his job temporarily, but
he was right: Anybody who flies an airplane
into a building isnt a coward. That was
too logical for people, though. You
cant be that honest. [laughs]
Its like the Japanese kamikazes in
World War II. They were diabolical, flying
right into ships, but they certainly
werent cowards. There are two sides to
every story. I guess the trouble is certain
stories just dont sell newspapers.
PLAYBOY: Nothings
selling newspapers these days.
THOMAS: And its a
tragedy. I still like a newspaper in my hand.
I get The Washington Post and The
New York Times outside the door every
morning and run to them. I like the print
press. You dont get anything in depth
anymore without a newspaper. Everything is a
headline, a sound bite. I worry about young
people really getting to know whats
going on in our world.
PLAYBOY: How much time do
you spend online?
THOMAS: Uh-uh. Im a
paper-and-pencil person. I probably should
look at Facebook and Huffington Post and
these other things, but I dont.
Everyone with a laptop thinks theyre a
journalist and everyone with a camera thinks
theyre a news photographer. Where are
the standards? How can we get back to the
ethics and standards of journalism?
Theres no editing, no oversight.
Its just thrown to the wind. Im
afraid of whats happening.
PLAYBOY: But you cant
deny the power of the web. Look at WikiLeaks.
What did you think of those diplomatic
revelations?
THOMAS: I think its great.
Its important to reveal whats
going on behind the scenes. We wouldnt
have known half this stuff without this
information, and its going to change
everything as far as diplomacy. Its
hard to believe we didnt know some of
this stuff before. Maybe I should have been
digging into these things myself. Im
probably not a good reporter. [laughs]
PLAYBOY: By the way, did you
ever see Marilyn Monroe backstage at the
White House?
THOMAS: [Laughs]
Now these are the questions I like, not the
ones that make me cry. No, I never saw
Marilyn. But I saw a lot.
PLAYBOY: What about Monica
Lewinsky? Was there talk in the pressroom
that Bill Clinton was having sex with someone
before that news got out?
THOMAS: Theres always
talk, but I never assume anything.
Thats the first law of journalism. Your
mother says she loves you, check it out. So
no, I didnt suspect.
PLAYBOY: Were you surprised?
THOMAS: No. I knew how women
liked Clinton very much.
PLAYBOY: Do you think
its the publics right to know
whats happening in the presidents
private life?
THOMAS: Absolutely. We need
to know everything a presidents up to.
Hes on our time, on our payroll.
Hes a public servant.
PLAYBOY: Were you all aware
that President Reagan was taking naps in the
White House when he should have been at
meetings?
THOMAS: We knew he fell
asleep a lot. But I still feel he was making
the decisions, even if some of them
werent great. Ketchup was a vegetable
on the school lunch program. I think Reagan
was so conservative, he really believed
people could pull themselves up without any
government assistance, get out of wherever
they were to find a job and so forth. That
created a real underclass in this country.
But there were also things I liked about
Reagan. He began to bend toward the Soviet
Union. It was Nancy who pushed him on that.
She convinced him to go to Russia to see for
himself that these people were real. That
began a whole transformation personally for
Reagan. He saw that the Russians laughed and
cried and were human. After he came back from
meeting Gorbachev for the first time, I said
to him, Mr. President, to think that if
you had gone to Moscow 10 or 20 years ago,
you might have found out back then that they
laugh, they cry, theyre human.
Nope, he said. Theyre
the ones whove changed.
PLAYBOY: How much was Nancy
Reagan controlling things behind the scenes?
THOMAS: Nancy certainly was
important and powerful, but I think its
because their marriage was so close.
Everybody liked Reagan, but he wasnt
particularly connected to anyone aside from
Nancy. It was morning in America and all that
jazz, but you never got the feeling he was
warm. Hed rather be alone with his wife
up in the family quarters.
PLAYBOY: Press secretaries
are paid to obscure the truth, are they not?
THOMAS: [Laughs]
Tell me about it. But we had a few good ones.
I loved Pierre Salingerloved his joie
de vivre, his intelligence, his
witthough he was really the first press
secretary to attempt to control the press. He
exerted tremendous influence in shifting the
story to places he wanted it to go. Bill
Moyers tried to do the same, and I had to
fight him on it. I once accused him of not
being honest and he said, Well, I might
shade the truth a little. Shade the
truth? Theres no room for shading the
truth in journalism. Whats funny is
that so many of these guys ended up working
in journalism. Look at George Stephanopoulos.
Hes Mr. Journalism now, which is ironic
because he started closing the door to the
press secretarys office his first week
on the job. Journalists keep out!
PLAYBOY: It sounds like he
wasnt your favorite gatekeeper.
THOMAS: I was very unhappy
with him when he came to the White House. Dee
Dee Myers was the press secretary under
Clinton, but Stephanopoulos was head of
communications and he kept forcing her out of
the way and taking over. He ran the office
with tight control, and since he made the
mistake of wanting his briefings to be on TV,
I kept asking, Why have a press
secretary if we cant freely go and ask
them private questions? And it was
heard from coast to coast. He didnt
treat us civilly. But then immediately after
hes out of the White House, he wants to
go into our profession. Its like he
couldnt stand being out of the
limelight. I mean, why should George
Stephanopoulos have been a great journalist?
Well, hes not, in my book. The way he
treated us. I dont want to sound like I
hold a grudge, but you do have a memory for
certain personalities.
PLAYBOY: Has there ever been
an honest press secretary?
THOMAS: Jerry terHorst. He
lasted one month. He was President
Fords press secretary. He had covered
Ford in Washington. He had been here for 29
years as a reporter from the Grand Rapids
paper and then The Detroit News. He
understood the press. But he was incapable of
lying, and he quit when Ford pardoned Nixon,
on the very day. He couldnt take it.
Poor Jerry Ford. He just wasnt ready to
be president. He had prepared himself to be
Speaker of the House and stepped into those
shoes okay, but he just wasnt equipped
for the big job. We saw that Betty Ford
struggled too, of course.
PLAYBOY: You and Douglas
Cornell, a White House correspondent for
rival Associated Press, were married for 11
years before he died, in 1982. Did you ever
regret not having children?
THOMAS: Well, until Doug,
boyfriends werent exactly beating down
the door, so I had a clear path to be a
reporter. I worried about having children,
actually, what it would have meant for them
to have someone working all the time. I know
I should have done it, but I feel I
didnt miss anything. Can I get you some
wine?
PLAYBOY: Its still pretty
early in the day. No thanks. By the way, is
it true what they say about political
journalists being big drinkers?
THOMAS: It used to be. Not
so much anymore.
PLAYBOY: Were you ever a
drinker?
THOMAS: I dont think Im
a heavy drinker, but I like to drink.
PLAYBOY: Whats your
beverage of choice?
THOMAS: Scotch. On the rocks.
I like wine, too, and I like vodka and tonic.
[laughs] With lots of limes. Sure you
dont want something?
PLAYBOY: No, thank you. Do
you miss being at the White House every day?
THOMAS: Of course I do.
Theres nothing to replace being there
as a reporter with your eyes and your ears.
You see things. Youre not always in the
know, but you get the atmosphere and so forth.
Ive had a great career.
PLAYBOY: Whats your hope for
the future?
THOMAS: On a political level,
I hope for disarmament. Billions and billions
are being spent every week on the war in
Afghanistan. We have 700 military bases
around the world. What do you think it costs
to keep that war machine running? Its
not working. I thought Obama would be for
peace, but hes not. There are no
peacemakers left. Theres no antiwar
movement to speak of. America just keeps
going, keeps fighting, keeps spending. I want
the killing to stop.
PLAYBOY: How would you like
to be remembered?
THOMAS: As the person who
asked why. Thats what I want as my
epitaph: Why? Its always
been my favorite question, even though it
rarely gets answered. As I said before,
because of what happened recently, people are
going to remember me a certain way. The truth
is, I dont hate anybody. I care deeply
about people. I care for the poor, the sick,
the lame, the harmed, those whove been
treated unjustly. I like the fact that you
asked me if Im nuts. People think
youre nuts if you take a stand in this
life. Ive always cared about what
happens in the world, and I think what the
Israelis are doing is wrong. We have to care
about our fellow man, and we dont.
Somehow weve lost that sense. Its
become almost a sin to care. But we are all
Gods children, right? [laughs]
PLAYBOY: Do you believe in
God?
THOMAS: Who knows? I was
raised Greek Orthodox, but I never understood
what was going on. In college I moved away
from religion, and then when I went to work I
would go to church with the president.
Id pray to whatever god the president
prayed to. I prayed to all of themjust
in case. Now I just pray in hopes that
something good will happen. I pray to whoever
the gods may be.
PLAYBOY: That makes sense.
One last thing: I heard you once say
journalists shouldnt say thank you
after an interview with a politician. But you
famously said Thank you, Mr.
President for almost 50 years.
THOMAS: I was following a
tradition. My old colleague Merriman Smith
was the one who invented the phrase during
the Truman era. After that, whoever was the
senior reporter at a news conference would
say it. That was my role for many years.
Its okay to say thank you.
PLAYBOY: Well, thank you, Ms.
Thomas.
THOMAS: Thank you.